Rust and Tracks

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Bryan Krueger
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Re: Rust and Tracks

Post by Bryan Krueger »

Tracks will rust. Here are some in service tanks from the Portuguese army in the depot.

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The rust disappears when rolling in the field. Either polished off from the grit, or gets covered in mud and dust.

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Adam Durrant
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Re: Rust and Tracks

Post by Adam Durrant »

Hence why the debate goes on over at FSM! :D
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Chris Smith
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Re: Rust and Tracks

Post by Chris Smith »

Definitely no bright orange rust though ;) :D

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Peter Smith
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Re: Rust and Tracks

Post by Peter Smith »

Apologies for re-awakening this debate, but I think it deserves it. I seem to be on a 1-person quest to reduce the amount of artistic rusting we see on armoured vehicle models.

Armour plate is a debate in itself, but is related. Armour plate alloys will contain substances such as manganese and nickel which inhibit - but not prevent - rusting. The accretion of carbon to the outer face from the heat treatment process also inhibits rusting. And it wears to a dull dark brown colour, not bright metal. I see too many "in service" models that are rusted like 30-year range wrecks.

Tracks are a similar situation. By the start of WW2 most track alloys for all-metal tracks contained manganese for durability. This also inhibits rust very well, but does not prevent it and the rust tends to have a greyish patina: certainly not orange. And the metal isn't a silvery colour, nor does it wear to a silvery or graphite colour. It is a goldy-brown colour for which I have yet to find an adequate match or mix. I'm not sure the Russians or French used much if any manganese in their tracks. The UK, US and Germany certainly did, although German use may have reduced or stopped later in the war.

Post-war, with the rise of rubber-padded tracks the metal parts of the links had less reason to contain much if any manganese and post-war tracks do seem to exhibit more conventional rusting. Russia has stuck with all-metal tracks, the manganese content of which is uncertain.

This is a British manganese track as fitted to Tortoise: big links so the effect is more visible. Note the colour of the contact areas on the spuds/cleats.
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This is my attempt at depicting it.
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This is an all-metal M4 track, T62 type. Also manganses steel, at least for the cleats.
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This is an Elefant track, which appears to be hot oil blackened and does show some orangey rust, implying not manganese.
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KV-1 track. Manganese - note wear point colour
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A9 and A10 Cruiser track. Manganese
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102 year old WW1 MkIV track. Not manganese, but not much rust either. These actually look like they've been subjected to face hardening like armour plate.
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LVT-4 tracks
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T-55 tracks. I would say low manganese, or none. Note orangey rust. But with no manganese they would only last a few hundred miles.
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Adam Durrant
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Re: Rust and Tracks

Post by Adam Durrant »

How did you do the Tortoise tracks Peter?
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Olivier Carneau
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Re: Rust and Tracks

Post by Olivier Carneau »

To add my French point to the discussion, Leclerc tracks do not rust cos they are made of aluminum. But the end connectors do rust, they are made of steel. The can go bright orange overnight after some rain or heavy humidity. As stated above, as soon as the tank has driven some kilometers the rust is "sanded" away.
For those who have no experience with desert conditions, it can be surprising to see how the tracks can rust overnight.
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Re: Rust and Tracks

Post by Peter Smith »

Actually, most of us only have to look at the brake discs on our cars in the morning after a wet night to see how quickly rust can develop on some steel alloys.

All steels will rust to some extent, except for truly stainless alloys - and no-one uses those for tank tracks. But it is abundantly clear to me that high manganese content alloys used in many tank tracks rust very slowly and do not display the palette of orange and red hues often used by "rust artists". Instead they seem to turn a greyish brown at first and later a darker brown - but over a period of years.

And highlighting manganese tracks with silvery shades or graphite is just plain wrong. It isn't either of those colours!

I am surprised about aluminium links on Leclerc. I would have thought aluminium would too prone to stretching around the pin holes, leading to short track life and higher risk of link failure. This must be the first and only use of aluminium links? It must also be a pain to prevent bimetallic corrosion where aluminium and steel are in direct contact and the tracks are parked up for any length of time. Finding that all your pins have corroded to the links seems like a recipe for snapped tracks. Are they fully rubber-bushed?

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Re: Rust and Tracks

Post by Philipp Gross »

That's an excellent post Peter - thanks a lot! :D

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Re: Rust and Tracks

Post by Peter Smith »

Apologies, Adam, I missed your question.

As I said, I haven't got to a definitive answer on manganese track colour yet. I'm just getting back into AFV modelling after the best part of 30 years off, having only done some - OK, lots - of Warhammer for my youngest son in the meantime.

My first 2 ventures this year were an E-10 and E-25, for which I assumed late war poor quality rusty tracks. But the Tortoise was a different prospect and I wanted to do something different from the "usual treatment" having seen the real thing. Even the various track primer and wash products available are all dark brown with reddish tones, so this myth is very ingrained.

Rummaging through my metallic paints looking for something to mix I came across a pot of Burnt Metal from the Russian company Xoma (Homa) which looked like a good start. I picked up some of their paints to try last time I bought some stuff from a store I use in Kiev (www.hobby.dn.ua). Under €1 a pot! On reflection it isn't really brown enough. The brown wash is 2 coats of AK Interactive Track Wash, followed by drybrushing the wear areas with the base colour.

This is the base colour before washing. Actually a nice matt finish, thinned with Ultimate Universal Thinner. But needs to be a bit browner, methinks. You can see what managanese steel looks like on Google.
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This is the finished article after some mudding and oil staining, taken from a similar angle to the real photo. Not a bad match, if I do say so myself. And before anyone asks, the Tortoise is a "what if" A39 MKII CS assault gun circa 1946 with a 4.5" main gun and Polsten secondary, Brownings in the cupola, stowage boxes and the sheet metal parts of the trackguards and skirts removed
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And another, from the front.
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